Palin will “win” (in the sense of coming out of the debate with more people on her side) the televised debates with Biden. This is because nothing Biden’s advisers do beforehand is going to be able to stop him from highhandedly and condescendingly lecturing her throughout the debate. He simply won’t be able to resist, and when he gives in to the sweet temptations of condescension he’ll inevitably hand the other side a real gift. It’s a good thing it doesn’t count for too much.
{ 2008 08 30 }
DC | 30-Aug-08 at 3:02 pm | Permalink
Plus, even if Elaine wasn’t many people’s favourite character, Seinfeld was still a much-loved series. And they say none of them have done anything since the show ended!
Paul | 31-Aug-08 at 5:17 pm | Permalink
I’m not so sure. Of course, I’m with you that this would not be unsurprising behavior coming from Biden, with an unsurprising outcome. And you hit the nail on the head when you say it’ll be because he can’t help himself. Still, my guess is that the Obama/Biden camp is going to attempt to walk a thin line between railing against John McCain and his policies, foreign and domestic, and railing against Palin as being ultraconservative and, evidently, scandal plagued. In the VP debate, the instruction–and that’s all they can give him–will be to go after McCain, and make Palin look like she’s out there to defend the actions of a crazy man (which, in effect, she will be). Palin’s qualifications, and the recklessness of choosing her, will be fodder for the Obama/McCain debates only. Obama can win the head to head experience contest with Palin, and everyone knows it. So he can go after McCain for putting Palin “a heartbeat away” without worry. And he will. But as for Biden, he could get through the debate clean–familiar word, eh?–if he sticks to issues, goes after only McCain, and makes Palin look like the two-bit paleoconservative she is.
Spaz | 02-Sep-08 at 10:56 am | Permalink
I’m not so sure. This is the party that convinced Al Gore NOT to beat up W in the debates. Gore surely had to muster up all his energy not to launch in at W in those debates (recall how effective he was against Perot, and yet his advisors reigned him in against the dunderhead). Maybe Biden won’t take instruction as well, though he should. Lord knows Gore shouldn’t have back then.
I agree with Paul, Biden will be all roses and perfume to Palin, will lambasting her boss. Only Obama will discuss her qualifications…mind you, she’s the only one of the four who has governed anything at all…albeit Alaska.
Chris | 02-Sep-08 at 11:20 am | Permalink
You guys are talking about what Biden should do. And you’re right! My worry is that his ego is too large to do it.
upyernoz | 02-Sep-08 at 12:57 pm | Permalink
actually, i’m beginning to wonder whether biden will have to worry about it. intrade is taking bets on whether mccain will drop palin from the ticket.
Paul | 02-Sep-08 at 1:11 pm | Permalink
Yeah, it may well be that she doesn’t stick around long. And she shouldn’t. I mean, what does it say about a “pro-family” woman that she’ll drag her daughter through the mud with her?
In any case, Chris, I *was* making predictions, even if normative language slipped in there.
Chris | 02-Sep-08 at 9:40 pm | Permalink
Ah, I see. Upyernoz, how could McCain drop her at this point? It would just look soooo bad – surely worse than anything we’ve seen so far. On the other hand, it’s been done before, hasn’t it?
Chris | 02-Sep-08 at 9:44 pm | Permalink
I wonder what the vetting team is discovering now that they’re finally looking into the question of whether McCain should pick Palin as his VP. Unless it’s really, really, really bad, I can’t see him dropping her.
ben wolfson | 02-Sep-08 at 10:52 pm | Permalink
Did you know that if you take “Biden/Palin” and rearrange the letters (and symbol), you can get “Bin Laden/Pi”? It’s true!
Chris | 03-Sep-08 at 8:51 am | Permalink
That’s fascinating and deeply frightening, Ben. Perhaps it means that Biden and Palin fall within the circle (spiritual?) of bin Laden. Or perhaps that they’re both deeply irrational, like bin Laden?
Spaz | 03-Sep-08 at 9:24 am | Permalink
Short of his untimely end, I can’t see her being replaced. If there is an untimely end during the rest of the race, I can’t see her taking over the nomination.
It just seems like the GOP is throwing this one. But, then maybe I underestimate the US public’s thirst for “4 more years”. I certainly did 4 years ago.
Re. the Bin Laden/Pi circle, there is something both sinister and X-files about Biden’s slick appearance (slicker than Slick Willy) and the state of Alaska.
Chris | 03-Sep-08 at 9:49 am | Permalink
If Biden turns out to be an alien, there’s a good chance that’ll make two Vice Presidents in a row.
John | 03-Sep-08 at 2:13 pm | Permalink
Biden should work with a facial artist to develop expressions that will offer the viewers of the debate an answer without a word being said. I can’t imagine Biden being challenged by a debate between D&R VP’s. Let’s make it a Comedy Channel extravaganza, something our nation needs desperately after Bozo the Bush’s presidency of horrors.
Spaz | 03-Sep-08 at 3:39 pm | Permalink
Foreign policy debates oughtta be fun. Apparently prior to going to visit Alaskan GIs for the first time she didn’t even have a passport. Though she must understand Arctic sovereignty issues better than 99.9% of Americans, but perhaps not as well as Biden.
Paul | 03-Sep-08 at 3:44 pm | Permalink
Comedy Central might be right. I just watched a vid over at booman’s of Palin addressing her former congregation, and I think I heard her talk of “red-headed Sasquatches for Jesus.” “Jesus” is right.
Paul | 04-Sep-08 at 12:09 pm | Permalink
After watching Palin last night, I think Chris might be right after all. At every turn Palin was willing to engage in the most petty mockery of Obama and the Dems. I have to agree with Chris that Biden won’t be able to help himself.
I saw GOP “predictions” before last night’s speech that were clearly designed to lower expectations so that Palin could smash them all. But all she did was read a speech someone else wrote. When it comes to the debate, all she can hope for is that expectations will again be lowered, and that she will find some way in hell to meet them.
Chris | 04-Sep-08 at 12:23 pm | Permalink
Some impressions: I watched 15 seconds of Palin’s speech (about all I can stomach of any political speech). I found myself smiling at the video of her. She’s not just hot. She also has a very likable manner. This is a country that elected Bush twice, apparently because he’d be more fun to have a beer with or something like that. I think she’ll be more help to McCain than Biden will be to Obama.
Also: Yoon hardly ever pays attention to any of this stuff, I I was intrigued when she remarked to me today that she saw a video of Biden and said a) “that guy talks way too much” and b) he’s really high on himself (can’t remember exact wording).
Josh | 04-Sep-08 at 4:18 pm | Permalink
“Palin” must be Alaskan for “low-brow.”
Paul | 05-Sep-08 at 11:28 am | Permalink
I don’t think deserves its own post, so I put it here.
John McCain’s speech was truly awful. His delivery is, of course, piss poor, but the speech itself was a disaster. I haven’t got the stamina to go through it again and justify this, but two parts jump out of memory.
First: “In this country, we believe everyone has something to contribute and deserves the opportunity to reach their God-given potential, from the boy whose descendants arrived on the Mayflower to the Latina daughter of migrant workers. We’re all God’s children, and we’re all Americans.”
Don’t descendants by definition come later in time? Shouldn’t it have been “ancestors”?
Second: “I fight for Americans. I fight for you. I fight for Bill and Sue Nebe from Farmington Hills, Michigan, who lost… APPLAUSE) … lost their real estate investments in the bad housing market.”
I can’t quite believe this. McCain’s speechwriters want to show that he is concerned about those hurt by the mortgage meltdown, and they choose to highlight a couple that is down and out because their real estate *investments* (plural) went bust? I mean, seriously??
And, of course, this is hilarious:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/213806.php
DC | 05-Sep-08 at 1:07 pm | Permalink
I’d say it was 90% bad but the 5 minutes about his war experience was pretty effective, no? (Though obviously dirty hippies like ourselves might wonder exactly what the consequences of his 23 flight missions over North Vietnam were – the “angry crowd” that greeted McCain on the gound seemed to be a laugh line for the RNC crowd.)
Paul | 05-Sep-08 at 2:41 pm | Permalink
I’m sorry to say that I must have zoned out, or changed the channel, when the starting talking up his war experience. Perhaps that makes me a bad judge, in the end. Although perhaps it reveals that the speech sucked and could not be relied upon to hold the audience’s attention.
DC | 05-Sep-08 at 6:27 pm | Permalink
Well actually that’s exactly what I was thinking watching it on youtube today – “golly this biography bit is quite good, but I imagine most people will have changed channel/dosed off by then, what with the awfulness of the rest”. OTOH I presume it’s been the most repeated part on TV.
(OTOOH come to think of it watching McCain speak is a bit like watching Kerry in’04 – 1) drone drone drone 2)’Nam ‘Nam ‘Nam (POW POW POW) 3) repeat.)
Given his Abe Simpson style and persona I also think it was a bad idea for his speech writers to have him say “electric automobile” rather than “car”, no? Can’t remember if he promised to develop an “electronic telegram” or not but one wouldn’t have been surprised…
Paul | 06-Sep-08 at 10:40 am | Permalink
Funny. I noticed the strange use of “automobile” too. Without any special insight, I do think that the reader comment Josh Marshall posted may be right: the McCain campaign put their A-team on the Palin speech, and left the McCain speech to the interns.
Abby Mae | 07-Sep-08 at 3:15 pm | Permalink
Biden will be respectful but he has to bring the truth forward and expose this joke of a Republican ticket. The polls may be tied now but things will change once the debates come forward. I have to admit, i was a little confused with the photo of building up on the screen with Pinhead McCain in forground, thanks for the info.
Pat | 18-Sep-08 at 6:57 pm | Permalink
It’s unfortunate that the Obama supporters refuse to discuss the truth: that Palin, a VP candidate has more experience than a Obama, Presidential candidate. Not to mention Obama has never authored an ACTUAL piece of legislation. He is just a figure the democratic party is using to represent change. Good riddance if the democrats continue to try and fix the polls and he wins…
Spaz | 19-Sep-08 at 10:42 am | Permalink
“He is just a figure the democratic party is using to represent change. Good riddance if the democrats continue to try and fix the polls and he wins…”
And that’s a bad thing is it? Just a vantage from Canada here, but I heard McCain say,
“And let me just offer an advance warning to the old, big- spending, do-nothing, me-first, country-second crowd: Change is coming.
I’m not — I’m not in the habit of breaking my promises to my country, and neither is Governor Palin. And when we tell you we’re going to change Washington and stop leaving our country’s problems for some unluckier generation to fix, you can count on it. And we’ve…”
And why is it that McCain/Palin need to “change” Washington after 8 years of their cronies running the place?
Well, as I mentioned further above, Palin is the only one of the four to have any experience governing anything. So there you go, an Obama sympathizing Canadian will admit she has more experience governing Wasilla and Alaska than Obama does. But if you think McCain’s experience leading troops should count as experience readying him for the presidency, you’re evading the truth as much as those you accuse. If you think McCain/Palin will change the status quo (i.e. Bush/Cheney) more that Obama/Palin, then you’re even more misguided.
Obama is a young man starting his political career and now catipulted to a position where he could win the highest office. It is not terribly surpising that his legislative record is not as long as, say, McCain’s or Biden’s. However, he has been catipulted because of his ability to inspire and yes his promise of change; because there is an appitite for change so large, that there is a willingness to actually try someone with limited experience! That’s how dire the situation resultant from the past 8 years is!
Chris | 19-Sep-08 at 2:34 pm | Permalink
Don’t feed a troll, you twit.
jeff | 27-Sep-08 at 12:40 am | Permalink
Not going to be that easy. Joe is just going to let her talk and hope she screws up. If Palin can pull it off(and do much better than in her interviews) than it could be enough to push McCain over the top – as it is, this race will be too close to call. If Palin screws up -Republicans might as well pack up and wait for 2012.
Janet Greene | 29-Sep-08 at 12:37 pm | Permalink
I know it will be hard for Biden not be be condescending to Palin. I am just a “regular person”, not that involved with politics, yet I know I could win against Palin debating the economy, international affairs, or energy (without breaking a sweat). It would be hard for ANYONE not to be condescending to someone who is all bluster, no substance. In fact, for me it would be hard to hide my incredulity at the wild things she says. I would try to keep a straight face, though.
E. louise | 30-Sep-08 at 7:27 pm | Permalink
It’s definitly going to be a cat fight! A tiger vs. a kitten! Mc. Cain is a wack-job for picking her.
Linda - Boston | 01-Oct-08 at 11:10 pm | Permalink
McCain scarcasims aren’t befitting for a president elect. Palins comments on foreign policy: well I’ve been to Mexico and Canada!!!We are so much more sophisticated and intellectual to know what is right, or wrong.
Obamas intellect outshines both McCain and Palin. With Biden its a sure bet!
Andrea Jones | 03-Oct-08 at 12:18 am | Permalink
Joe Biden did an outstanding debate and clearly won on every point. He had a huge advantage in his grasp of all topics and issues and his ability to express his team’s platform and views. I was highly impressed.
Palin was able to disguise her lack of knowledge and understanding, which was a relief. I’m glad that she was able to save face. I think that Americans are intelligent enough to see that the country deserves a person of high competency and excellent judgement in this important position.
Andy - Fort Lauderda | 03-Oct-08 at 12:39 am | Permalink
Palin – WHAT A JOKE. That woman has absolutely not idea of what’s going in her household let alone the country.
Biden – NOW, THAT’S A VICEPRESIDENT !!!!
upyernoz | 03-Oct-08 at 10:10 am | Permalink
hey chris, i actually agreed with your prediction going in. but today it doesn’t look like anyone is calling biden highhanded or condescending.
Paul | 03-Oct-08 at 10:46 am | Permalink
Yeah, he did a good job of avoided those vices. His smile annoyed the hell out of me, especially when Palin would flat out lie about his or another’s record/position, but what can you do.
I think this debate will be either a wash (=inconsequential) or else slightly help Obama. But maybe I’ll go see what is bein’ reportid in the polls, Joe Sixpack, before I go on again thinkin’ I’m the be all end all.
Chris | 03-Oct-08 at 11:39 am | Permalink
Upyernoz,
I agree! I was wrong, I’m glad to say. I thought that Biden could have called her more on her shit, but that he at least did more of that than Obama in the first debate. The polls I’ve seen look good for Biden.
Paul | 03-Oct-08 at 2:06 pm | Permalink
It’s a fucked place we live in when the opposition TV spot makes hay of the fact that taxes are involved, instead of the fact that you’ll have to pay a $12,000 premium with a $5,000 credit.
Paul | 03-Oct-08 at 2:07 pm | Permalink
Not to mention that premiums will go up for many individuals who are no longer protected by community- and experience-rating of premiums.