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	<title>Comments on: Bleg, or, phleg: Aristotle, catharsis, porn</title>
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	<link>http://www.explananda.com/2008/02/01/bleg-or-phleg-aristotle-catharsis-porn/</link>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.explananda.com/2008/02/01/bleg-or-phleg-aristotle-catharsis-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-5134</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.explananda.com/?p=2216#comment-5134</guid>
		<description>And Sumerian and Egyptian. Come on. (Caesar salad? You can call it Miss Jackson, because it&#039;s nastaay.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Sumerian and Egyptian. Come on. (Caesar salad? You can call it Miss Jackson, because it&#8217;s nastaay.)</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.explananda.com/2008/02/01/bleg-or-phleg-aristotle-catharsis-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-5133</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.explananda.com/?p=2216#comment-5133</guid>
		<description>Ok, fine, you made me check. It was a ROMAN thing. Please. Cut me some slack here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, fine, you made me check. It was a ROMAN thing. Please. Cut me some slack here.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.explananda.com/2008/02/01/bleg-or-phleg-aristotle-catharsis-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-5131</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.explananda.com/?p=2216#comment-5131</guid>
		<description>Ben, I only made one spelling mistake in that entire comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, I only made one spelling mistake in that entire comment?</p>
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		<title>By: ben wolfson</title>
		<link>http://www.explananda.com/2008/02/01/bleg-or-phleg-aristotle-catharsis-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-5130</link>
		<dc:creator>ben wolfson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Hydrolic&quot;, Chris?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Hydrolic&#8221;, Chris?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.explananda.com/2008/02/01/bleg-or-phleg-aristotle-catharsis-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-5123</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 13:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.explananda.com/?p=2216#comment-5123</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure that is worth passing on - just a convoluted way of saying &quot;Duh, I dunno.&quot;  

The original lettuce sex story was most certainly not an Aristotelian thing.  This is a fiasco!  Perhaps I need to fix this by posing for a picture shirtless holding a head of lettuce.  The integrity of our categorial scheme may depend on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that is worth passing on &#8211; just a convoluted way of saying &#8220;Duh, I dunno.&#8221;  </p>
<p>The original lettuce sex story was most certainly not an Aristotelian thing.  This is a fiasco!  Perhaps I need to fix this by posing for a picture shirtless holding a head of lettuce.  The integrity of our categorial scheme may depend on it.</p>
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		<title>By: anne</title>
		<link>http://www.explananda.com/2008/02/01/bleg-or-phleg-aristotle-catharsis-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-5118</link>
		<dc:creator>anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 06:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.explananda.com/?p=2216#comment-5118</guid>
		<description>Thank you - I will duly pass along.

Well, wasn&#039;t the original lettuce sex story an Aristotelian thing? Or ancient Greek anyway?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you &#8211; I will duly pass along.</p>
<p>Well, wasn&#8217;t the original lettuce sex story an Aristotelian thing? Or ancient Greek anyway?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.explananda.com/2008/02/01/bleg-or-phleg-aristotle-catharsis-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-5116</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.explananda.com/?p=2216#comment-5116</guid>
		<description>Hey!  You don&#039;t mention lettuce in this post.  You&#039;re cheating with the categories!  I want real lettuce-sex stories!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey!  You don&#8217;t mention lettuce in this post.  You&#8217;re cheating with the categories!  I want real lettuce-sex stories!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.explananda.com/2008/02/01/bleg-or-phleg-aristotle-catharsis-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-5114</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.explananda.com/?p=2216#comment-5114</guid>
		<description>The delay is on account of I was stuffing myself with bacon cheeseburgers and homemade french fries (with homemade ketchup).  So good.

I&#039;ve often wondered about this, actually, but I really don&#039;t know the &lt;em&gt;Poetics&lt;/em&gt; the way I should, so I&#039;m reluctant to even attempt an answer.  I would guess that the relevant account of purging also seems to require a certain actual distance - it&#039;s relevant that the king we&#039;re watching isn&#039;t really our king, isn&#039;t really a king at all, but rather an actor, and the people dying on screen aren&#039;t really dying.  Otherwise, there&#039;s no purgation - just horror.
 
Contrast that with porn, which, unless it&#039;s really lame, involves actual people boning, and many of us value realism here, at least of a sort.  Wanking to porn seems to me a different &lt;em&gt;kind&lt;/em&gt; of involvement with the material, and so I think it&#039;s just too much of a stretch to try to apply Aristotle&#039;s thoughts about the one subject to something so different.  After all, Aristotle didn&#039;t say (as far as I can remember) that it&#039;s awesome to go to see public fights, since that involves negative emotion that you might be able to purge by shouting things at the fighters.  He meant his theory to apply to the theatre, not more generally.

As for purging excess emotions, of course Aristotle doesn&#039;t think that sexual desire is bad in itself, so long as it doesn&#039;t get out of control.  It&#039;s probably important to be clear about why this sort of thing is supposed to be bad from Aristotle&#039;s perspective.  It probably isn&#039;t the reason I think porn is so morally questionable: feminist concerns about the whole business.

On to the second part of the question:  Simplifying irresponsibly, yeah, it&#039;s true that you might say that Aristotle tends to think of behavior of a certain sort as leading to further habituation of the soul that strengthens the tendency to the original behaviour.  That&#039;s why you should be good, and why acquiring a virtue - which is a certain sort of character trait - is very much a matter of repeatedly acting in a certain way (as opposed to simply attending really good ethics lectures).  Again simplifying irresponsibly you might contrast this with a Freudian hydrolic model of the psyche in which certain channels of energy can be diverted along different streams (e.g., my thwarted desire to shag can be sublimated into a desire to write the Great Canadian Novel).  But the streams themselves aren&#039;t lessened, they&#039;re only diverted; the phenomenon of habituation that Aristotle stresses so much is, on this account of human psychology, somewhat misleading, in as much as habituation is supposed to imply some fundamental transformation of the original drives.

OK, so now if that&#039;s Aristotle&#039;s general approach, you can see why he might be anti-relief, if he thought that indulging frequently in wanking turned you into a . . . wanker, and that was a bad thing.  

But again, I&#039;m reluctant to say anything for sure here, since I can&#039;t remember if he says anything special about masturbation in the biological writings.  It seems entirely possible to me that he could go either way on the issue.

Sorry to be so totally unconvincing/uninformed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The delay is on account of I was stuffing myself with bacon cheeseburgers and homemade french fries (with homemade ketchup).  So good.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve often wondered about this, actually, but I really don&#8217;t know the <em>Poetics</em> the way I should, so I&#8217;m reluctant to even attempt an answer.  I would guess that the relevant account of purging also seems to require a certain actual distance &#8211; it&#8217;s relevant that the king we&#8217;re watching isn&#8217;t really our king, isn&#8217;t really a king at all, but rather an actor, and the people dying on screen aren&#8217;t really dying.  Otherwise, there&#8217;s no purgation &#8211; just horror.</p>
<p>Contrast that with porn, which, unless it&#8217;s really lame, involves actual people boning, and many of us value realism here, at least of a sort.  Wanking to porn seems to me a different <em>kind</em> of involvement with the material, and so I think it&#8217;s just too much of a stretch to try to apply Aristotle&#8217;s thoughts about the one subject to something so different.  After all, Aristotle didn&#8217;t say (as far as I can remember) that it&#8217;s awesome to go to see public fights, since that involves negative emotion that you might be able to purge by shouting things at the fighters.  He meant his theory to apply to the theatre, not more generally.</p>
<p>As for purging excess emotions, of course Aristotle doesn&#8217;t think that sexual desire is bad in itself, so long as it doesn&#8217;t get out of control.  It&#8217;s probably important to be clear about why this sort of thing is supposed to be bad from Aristotle&#8217;s perspective.  It probably isn&#8217;t the reason I think porn is so morally questionable: feminist concerns about the whole business.</p>
<p>On to the second part of the question:  Simplifying irresponsibly, yeah, it&#8217;s true that you might say that Aristotle tends to think of behavior of a certain sort as leading to further habituation of the soul that strengthens the tendency to the original behaviour.  That&#8217;s why you should be good, and why acquiring a virtue &#8211; which is a certain sort of character trait &#8211; is very much a matter of repeatedly acting in a certain way (as opposed to simply attending really good ethics lectures).  Again simplifying irresponsibly you might contrast this with a Freudian hydrolic model of the psyche in which certain channels of energy can be diverted along different streams (e.g., my thwarted desire to shag can be sublimated into a desire to write the Great Canadian Novel).  But the streams themselves aren&#8217;t lessened, they&#8217;re only diverted; the phenomenon of habituation that Aristotle stresses so much is, on this account of human psychology, somewhat misleading, in as much as habituation is supposed to imply some fundamental transformation of the original drives.</p>
<p>OK, so now if that&#8217;s Aristotle&#8217;s general approach, you can see why he might be anti-relief, if he thought that indulging frequently in wanking turned you into a . . . wanker, and that was a bad thing.  </p>
<p>But again, I&#8217;m reluctant to say anything for sure here, since I can&#8217;t remember if he says anything special about masturbation in the biological writings.  It seems entirely possible to me that he could go either way on the issue.</p>
<p>Sorry to be so totally unconvincing/uninformed.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.explananda.com/2008/02/01/bleg-or-phleg-aristotle-catharsis-porn/comment-page-1/#comment-5111</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Given Chris&#039;s delay in responding, I&#039;d guess he thinks Aristotle would view this as an empirical question. As such, Chris is right now attempting to ascertain Aristotle&#039;s answer. Never before has he been so happy to be a guinea pig.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given Chris&#8217;s delay in responding, I&#8217;d guess he thinks Aristotle would view this as an empirical question. As such, Chris is right now attempting to ascertain Aristotle&#8217;s answer. Never before has he been so happy to be a guinea pig.</p>
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